Autor Wątek: Why?!  (Przeczytany 14911 razy)

Scuba Diver

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Why?!
« dnia: Październik 30, 2004, 06:40:16 am »
Why did he kill Pirx?! ??? ??? ???

Terminus

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Re: Why?!
« Odpowiedź #1 dnia: Październik 30, 2004, 08:06:10 pm »
Why shouldn't he?

Karel

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Re: Why?!
« Odpowiedź #2 dnia: Listopad 01, 2004, 07:36:15 am »
It was not Pirx. It was Tempe...

Scuba_Diver

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Re: Why?!
« Odpowiedź #3 dnia: Listopad 01, 2004, 07:57:12 am »
Pirx died on Titan (sorry if name of the planet is not correct-in russian it is TITAN), and Tempe was this young pilot, Angus. It is directly said there..  

Karel

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Re: Why?!
« Odpowiedź #4 dnia: Listopad 01, 2004, 11:18:04 am »
Cytuj
Pirx died on Titan   

Yes...he was "vitrificated" with hope of resurrection on mind. Can we call it death?
« Ostatnia zmiana: Listopad 01, 2004, 11:26:48 am wysłana przez Karel »

Terminus

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Re: Why?!
« Odpowiedź #5 dnia: Listopad 08, 2004, 02:33:40 am »
Both Tempe and Pirx were vitrificated. First it was Pirx, who left the base, and then it was Tempe, who went looking for Pirx.

But only Tempe was brought back to life aboard the starship.

Therefore the reasons of killing Pirx are infact all described in the "Fiasco".

In my opinion it is even better that Lem has encluded Pirx character in this novel. At least we know how Pirx'es life ended, which we could'n guess otherwise, as it wasn't descriped in "Tales of Pirx the pilot".

« Ostatnia zmiana: Listopad 08, 2004, 02:35:08 am wysłana przez Terminus »

dzi

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Re: Why?!
« Odpowiedź #6 dnia: Listopad 12, 2004, 01:41:10 am »
cuz Lem writes true stories... and in true stories people die
;)

Terminus

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Re: Why?!
« Odpowiedź #7 dnia: Listopad 12, 2004, 03:52:00 pm »
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cuz Lem writes true stories... and in true stories people die
;)


And have you ever seen a true vitrification?

I know that's not what you mean, I'm just toying...

SoGo

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Re: Why?!
« Odpowiedź #8 dnia: Listopad 25, 2004, 02:47:28 pm »
I say you the reason those made him killed:

HE HAD SEEN THE QUINTANIAN!

And everyone who had a contact with a foreign intellect, must die. That is, because Lem don't want to draw a picture of a foreign intelligence because he know it MUST be wrong.

So, with his Fiasko (we would made the same as the Quintanian with an starship which would came to us)
he should how it would goes: No Contact, because no one wan't it.

And as they don't flee, everybody in this scenario must die: The Intelligence, The Mission

And Pirx, because he saw the Quintanian.

I think the Quintanian had been the white ants, because of (naked white bodys) and the novel in the novel (from the old man in africa)

You think its right?

Terminus

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Re: Why?!
« Odpowiedź #9 dnia: Listopad 25, 2004, 04:15:22 pm »
Hehe, it wasn't Pirx who saw Quintanians. It was Tempe.

Don't bother, Lem killed them both anyway  ::)
« Ostatnia zmiana: Listopad 25, 2004, 04:16:06 pm wysłana przez Terminus »

Karel

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Re: Why?!
« Odpowiedź #10 dnia: Listopad 26, 2004, 05:00:59 pm »
Cytuj
I think the Quintanian had been the white ants, because of (naked white bodys) and the novel in the novel (from the old man in africa)

You think its right?


Do you mean:

1) intelligent entities (after all they developed hi-technology)
2) intelligent, but militaristic civilisation
3) insect ruled only by instincts
4) aliens (like in horror movies)
5) "evil" (as said by father Arago)


Terminus

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Re: Why?!
« Odpowiedź #11 dnia: Listopad 27, 2004, 03:15:26 am »
Sory for interferring, but in my opinion Quintanians had to be intelligent. Didn't they negotiate with the Earth ship's crew?
Of course, it could have been some other form of intelligence; for example it is safe to assume, that the certain group of Quintanians might be called ,,intelligent'', whereas the individuals are not intelligent (by the means of human understanding).

One more thing. I don't think the world ''evil'' (as used by father Arago) could describe any unhuman being. The evil itself is a human concept, based on some features of a human soul and is (evil) strongly connected with the ability to criticise individual human acts.    It is highly unlikely for Quintanians to be similar to humans in any way; therefore the conception of evil itself is, I think, unadequate.

SoGo

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Re: Why?!
« Odpowiedź #12 dnia: Grudzień 12, 2004, 02:58:42 pm »
I think about Quintanian:
There are intelligent in the way they build something.
They had produced energy and build the ice ring.
Which motivation isn't the question.
That they was able to create is a form of intelligence.

They aren't bad, because you can't say what is bad for them.

And Tempe didn't know who he was.
He is one of the missed, that's it.
But I think, Lem meaned Pirx, who is getting any risk to do something, what no figure had done in any other novells of Lem: He had seen a foreign lifeform
(intelligence in the way I explained upstairs)

Karel

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Re: Why?!
« Odpowiedź #13 dnia: Grudzień 14, 2004, 03:37:38 pm »
Agreed with your description of Quintanians.
In this story, people was not able to make contact  (a couple of messages is nothing), Pirx died, Tempe died, but main idea is (in my opinion) fatal effects of misunderstanding. Why should we cry for Pirx, if there were killed all Quintanians   ??? ??? ???
That is why it is named Fiasco
« Ostatnia zmiana: Grudzień 16, 2004, 08:39:36 am wysłana przez Karel »

Terminus

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Re: Why?!
« Odpowiedź #14 dnia: Grudzień 16, 2004, 02:45:26 am »
We cry for Pirx and the Quinanians as well...

« Ostatnia zmiana: Grudzień 16, 2004, 02:47:40 am wysłana przez Terminus »