Autor Wątek: Women in Lem novels  (Przeczytany 13928 razy)

Joan Alòs

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Women in Lem novels
« dnia: Wrzesień 09, 2005, 12:59:16 pm »
I'd like to know why are so few women (if any) in Stanislaw Lem novels.

Terminus

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #1 dnia: Wrzesień 09, 2005, 01:40:13 pm »
Hah, ask Lem ::) We've already discussed it; but I don't remember any constructive conclussions.

I personally think that this may be caused by the fact that the majority of Lem's characters are proffesional scientists (take Eden) or pilots and navigators, adventurers (Pirx, Star Diaries) and this sort of lifestyle is still associated with being a male ::)

Or at least it was at the time Lem wrote all this.

On the other hand, one must admit, that it may be hard for a male writer to give a good description of a female character; but I don't think this is Lem's problem. I'd rather suspect that, simply, he wasn't interested in complicating the human-human relations in his novels.  And this complication always appears when women are introduced - take this as a compliment - males are just so simple-minded ;). Maybe this simplicity (in between humans) was more suitable for Lem.

Deckert

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #2 dnia: Wrzesień 09, 2005, 06:57:04 pm »
Cytuj
Hah, ask Lem ::) We've already discussed it; but I don't remember any constructive conclussions.


Coz there were no constructive conslussions... :-) only presumtions.

But I really like the idea you gave above. Indeed, introducing female characters into a story makes the story even more complicated - and I'd say - multithreaded ;-)

CU
Deck

Terminus

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #3 dnia: Wrzesień 09, 2005, 07:22:13 pm »
Yeea... and men just aren't hyperthreading processors... ehm...

...got some problems even with half-duplex, as a matter of fact...

::)


afebk

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #4 dnia: Wrzesień 12, 2005, 03:47:18 am »
I rarely find the masculinity of Lem's characters to be an obstacle to identifying with the story.  They are most often involved in problems of universal aspect, anyway.  I can say he's never raised my feminist hackles.

innate

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #5 dnia: Wrzesień 12, 2005, 07:24:43 pm »
That's true. I think I read in one of his interviews something about literature focusing on individuals and small things having been rendered meaningless by the enormity of the World War.
On the other hand, I've seen the claim that Fiasco has a misogynist rant in it that was not included in the English translation. I don't know; just what I've heard...I'm not exactly sure how the topic would come up in something like Fiasco, anyway.

awariat

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #6 dnia: Wrzesień 14, 2005, 08:13:06 pm »
Why are there so few women in movies and books in general? Why are they typically good looking and are  sex objects for the main hero :)?.  I don't think this is just a Lem problem. In my oppinion men are just more interesting from a mans point of view, so the books wouldn't be so good if he introduced more women.

nqd

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #7 dnia: Wrzesień 16, 2005, 02:38:21 pm »
Cytuj
Why are there so few women in movies and books in general? Why are they typically good looking and are  sex objects for the main hero :)?.  I don't think this is just a Lem problem. In my oppinion men are just more interesting from a mans point of view, so the books wouldn't be so good if he introduced more women.

I'll only repeat what somebody said earlier. Men takes women in very different way, it's always complication and IMHO from the men point of view, relationship between man and woman is always more difficult than between two men. And if author (male author) does not want a complication he replaces woman character with man character.

wetal

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #8 dnia: Wrzesień 17, 2005, 01:30:33 pm »
Oh gosh there`s not a single constructive view. Did you take into account when Lem`s novels were written? I the time when thre were very popular cheap pulp-fiction novels about sexy space girls and male knights who fought against some misters evils whose mission was the simplest, to destroy the planet of a notorious girl who of course undressed makes hero to save her planet and to slay the antihero violently.
  Did you read Harry Harrison whose characters drank "space whisky" that is best brewed on mars or venus,the women in his novels can be loving mothers and in the same time professional killers, know karate , aikido, thiekwondo,makrame,arigami,karaoke -all that is really sexy.
 Did you want Lem to be the second Harrison ?

Terminus

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #9 dnia: Wrzesień 17, 2005, 03:54:40 pm »
O wow, and You're so constructive. Praise God.

yourheroisyourself

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #10 dnia: Wrzesień 20, 2005, 11:40:29 am »
I often think about this issue with other books or authors, but I never thought about that with Lem. So I think it's rather neutral to me.

I never found anything misogynistic in his books. If there is I really would like to know ;)

wetal

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #11 dnia: Wrzesień 22, 2005, 02:52:21 pm »
Yes Terminus, yes very constructive. All I ment is that Mr.Lem is rather a philosopher than a romantic novel writer.
 Need romantics? Read  Maupassant.

Terminus

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #12 dnia: Wrzesień 22, 2005, 05:44:49 pm »
Oh, and now You're even funny! How cute!

I dont' give a damn about romantic novels, nor try to persuade that Lem writes them. I gave a comprehensive explanation of why Lem's books are so free-from-women, in the first post; and I find it very amusing that You seem to think that only You are constructive here.

But go on, it's cool.

« Ostatnia zmiana: Wrzesień 23, 2005, 02:20:26 am wysłana przez Terminus »

Socrates

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #13 dnia: Wrzesień 23, 2005, 06:30:09 pm »
Gee, I always thought introducing female characters into books made books that much simpler...It's quite obvious what the feelings of men for women will become; the women will either accept the advances or not, and finally everyone will live happily ever after (or one or both will die in either a built-up heroic scene or in some pathetic little accident).   If you only deal with male or female characters (or primarily, at least), you cannot help but develop the characters to the fullest in an effort to keep the readers stimulated and thinking.  You will not have the safety of a retreat into a patterned man-woman relationship if you run out of ideas.  Vide Lem's Pirx stories, Of Mice and Men, or Madame Bovary.
Cheers, Socrates

Terminus

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #14 dnia: Wrzesień 23, 2005, 06:37:16 pm »
Quite right.  So, infact, it even complicates the matter.

Good point.