Autor Wątek: Women in Lem novels  (Przeczytany 13765 razy)

wetal

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #15 dnia: Październik 04, 2005, 03:58:20 pm »
Ah , well,there appeared some misconception. It must be through different mentality. In my understanding the women are made for LOVE and if the male writer introduces female character to his creation.In most cases [not in all] it is made for romantic issues.
  Do you remember Zigmund Freud ?It might have been the thing he called ''sublimation''.And someone`s constructivity is not the point of the discussion.
 

Deckert

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #16 dnia: Październik 04, 2005, 04:20:27 pm »
ohh.... women...


CU
Deck

wetal

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #17 dnia: Październik 10, 2005, 03:33:50 pm »
Aaah! You don`t say.

Miri

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #18 dnia: Grudzień 02, 2005, 02:30:33 pm »
Women are rare with Lem, alright. Think of Harey. Beautiful and young, but no scientist, no profession, nothing to add to the story told but her looks and her purity. Well, Lem (genius that he is) in this respect is simply a child of his time.

def

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #19 dnia: Grudzień 08, 2005, 01:18:13 am »
Although if he did have women he could add a fair bit more descriptive writing about a relationship to his novel

Terminus

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #20 dnia: Grudzień 08, 2005, 01:37:20 am »
Yup, and that's why he didn't have them there.
His characters wasn'r really much into relationships...

Miranda

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #21 dnia: Grudzień 08, 2005, 12:43:55 pm »
Terminus is right. Think of all those irrelevant love details spoiling the whole story told. Who wants to know about the little fears and joys of women and men interacting when universe is at stake? The same about his male protagonists. Imagine them not solving (or trying to) the riddles of an unknown world, but instead being jealous or telling each other their childhood events just to get to know each other.
Relationsships of any (human/oid) kind would spoil sophisticated hypothesis as one can find them in Lems work.

daffodil2006

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #22 dnia: Marzec 29, 2006, 07:16:35 pm »
Yes, it's really interesting, why Lem devoted so little time to women in his work. Maybe he doesn't think that women are simply minded or less important in society. I have never thought about it before I found this topic.

In my opinion Lem doesn't need female heroines to express his ideas and threads of thinking. And you hardly ever find any romantic in his works. The most vivid personality I remember from his works is the dead wive in Solaris.

daffodil2006

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #23 dnia: Marzec 29, 2006, 07:20:14 pm »
Miranda, I'm sorry to say but I don't agree that Romantics can spoil sci-fi. Perhaps, you haven't read some stories of Garry Garrison, Robert Sheckly and Clifford Simak. I really enjoy them.

tomsak

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #24 dnia: Marzec 30, 2006, 10:23:34 am »
OK, women characters are rare in his work, but look at Harey (engl. Rhea) - she 's the most human in Solaris, and the only side willing and capable of making the Contact. That's one of main layers in that novel. (Although we could argue 1. is she a human or "ocean", 2. how she's actually only simulation of original Harey intermediated through Kevin's memory / perception of her / subconsciousness. - But even if that's true, she becomes new, independent person, female person, and she's doing the step which nor Kevin nor Snaut are capable of doing. Kevin's final statement of staying there in "time of cruel miracles" is only late understanding of what she was trying to do or say.)
« Ostatnia zmiana: Marzec 30, 2006, 10:25:29 am wysłana przez tomsak »

Mieslaw

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #25 dnia: Marzec 30, 2006, 04:46:59 pm »
Hello, this is my first post in English section.

In polish section we have discussion about a book "Obłok Magellana" (I think that it wasn't translated into English). It was written in 1955. A critic wrote that women in this book are mysterious and weird.
Well, the same critic wrote also that women-men relations are shown in "very bourgeois way"  :-/.
But we can't say that that women don't occur in this book, there is quite much about ralationship between main character and a woman.

Pekka

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Re: Women in Lem novels
« Odpowiedź #26 dnia: Marzec 30, 2006, 07:22:59 pm »
Cytuj
OK, women characters are rare in his work, but look at Harey (engl. Rhea) - she 's the most human in Solaris, and the only side willing and capable of making the Contact. That's one of main layers in that novel. (Although we could argue 1. is she a human or "ocean", 2. how she's actually only simulation of original Harey intermediated through Kevin's memory / perception of her / subconsciousness. - But even if that's true, she becomes new, independent person, female person, and she's doing the step which nor Kevin nor Snaut are capable of doing. Kevin's final statement of staying there in "time of cruel miracles" is only late understanding of what she was trying to do or say.)


I fully agree. Lem´s novels are philosophical in character so you don´t need heroes, but if there is a heroine abroad Solaris, it is Harey...her situation is even more untolerable than Kelvin´s and indeed she is the only character to make the final heroic act by letting herself to be annihilated. There is no chauvinism in Lem´s works, the men are indeed no masculine heroes, but people trying to make sense of the world. And if you read Return from the stars I cannot think there is any under-valuing of women.

Cheers, Pekka