Autor Wątek: Ending of "Fiasco"  (Przeczytany 53451 razy)

mrle01

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Ending of "Fiasco"
« dnia: Kwiecień 25, 2006, 12:35:07 am »
Could someone please expain the ending of the "Fiasco" novel to me. Maybe because I wasn't reading it in my own language I didn't understand in the end what the aliens were like and what did the ending mean.

Thanks.

Terminus

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Re: Ending of "Fiasco"
« Odpowiedź #1 dnia: Kwiecień 26, 2006, 03:34:18 am »
Well, Tempe/Pirx (whoever) saw the Quinians and subsequently died due to a gravitonal blast, which destroyed the planet together with all its inhabitants. ::)

Does this explain anything?
And more seriously: what is it that You don't understand?

mrle01

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Re: Ending of "Fiasco"
« Odpowiedź #2 dnia: Kwiecień 26, 2006, 11:36:22 am »
The thing I didn't understand was what were the Quinians like. They weren't humaniod in shape as I understand it.

It was described that Tempe was trying to open one those things on the ground (sorry for that but my english isn't best) and that then he realised he saw the Quinians. Were that things the Quinians? And what about the net and the antenas that were over that?

Terminus

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Re: Ending of "Fiasco"
« Odpowiedź #3 dnia: Kwiecień 26, 2006, 04:05:25 pm »
Well, I think I'll have to look it over. But what I remember is that Tempe saw some bulbs on the ground, which formed some bunch-like structures. I understand that those were the Quinta's inhabitants. Somehow.

As for the antennas, I've no idea where they came from. It's possible that the Quintians were somehow microscopic or something, and built things on a nano-level. Who knows.

mrle01

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Re: Ending of "Fiasco"
« Odpowiedź #4 dnia: Kwiecień 26, 2006, 10:44:19 pm »
Thanks for that. I was thinking the same thing about the Quinians being microscopic, but I tought I was wrong because of their spaceships and that plasma flame on their moon.

Maybe we weren't meant to find out what the Quinians were like and the only man who saw them got killed along with the whole planet.

Terminus

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Re: Ending of "Fiasco"
« Odpowiedź #5 dnia: Kwiecień 27, 2006, 03:01:55 am »
That is very likely. Lem tends to sneak out of the necessity to describe things that would come out silly. And, to be hones, nearly every description of the alien race would be this or other way difficult/humoristic. He avoided it perfectly.


mrle01

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Re: Ending of "Fiasco"
« Odpowiedź #6 dnia: Kwiecień 27, 2006, 11:59:52 pm »
Thanks. I would like to ask you about other novels Lem wrote. So far I've read Solaris and Fiasco and I'm about to read a book that is called "Ana from the stars" (thats translation in my country, in polish it's "Oblok Magellana"). That are only Lem's books I've found so far.

So what other books are like Solaris or Fiasco if i ever come across any of them?

Terminus

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Re: Ending of "Fiasco"
« Odpowiedź #7 dnia: Kwiecień 28, 2006, 12:28:02 am »
And where are You from? (I mean the country).

Terminus

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Re: Ending of "Fiasco"
« Odpowiedź #8 dnia: Kwiecień 28, 2006, 12:36:32 am »
Cytuj
T "Ana from the stars" (thats translation in my country, in polish it's "Oblok Magellana").


You say it's called Anna from the stars? - thas unbelieveable. Originally it is the title of one of the chapters of this book (which, as You said, is indeed titled Oblok Magellana).

Now, about the book. Well, if You've read Solaris and Fiasco, then You may find Oblok... a little different. Moreover, even dissapointing. That's because Oblok is an (very) early book. Lem wrote in in the middle fifties, being under large pressure from the Communist Party (which, as You no doubt know, ruled Poland at the moment). The book, therefore, is packed with communinist motives. But aside from that - it is quite good ! I personally like it very much. We've talked about it recently in the Polish section of this forum.
Oblok gives an interesting description of an interstellar voyage (8 years one way...). It describes psychological aspects of being 'trapped in the black, cold space' for years.  It also contains first Lem's attempts to describe contact with other civilisation.

So, mind all its failures, but definitely give it a try!

And, more importantly - search for other books. I can not believe that, for example, Star Diaries (Dzienniki Gwiazdowe)) weren't published in You country ::) ...

mrle01

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Re: Ending of "Fiasco"
« Odpowiedź #9 dnia: Kwiecień 28, 2006, 09:39:15 pm »
Well I'm from Croatia ( of former Yugoslavia), and the book is called "Ana from the stars" ( or in croatian "Ana sa zvijezda"). It was published in 1965. Don't know why they changed it's name like that.

As for his other books, the thing is that I live in a small town and the library in my town hasn't got too much books. Only those 3 I mentioned earlier, and of these three only Solaris is published recently. I've even tried looking for his books in English language in the biggest bookstore in our main city but had no luck. Maybe I will have more luck looking in shops that sell old books.


Terminus

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Re: Ending of "Fiasco"
« Odpowiedź #10 dnia: Kwiecień 29, 2006, 02:41:01 am »
That's sweet ::) Greetings from Poland.

And in the bibliography placed on www.lem.pl, one can read that Return from the stars was also translated to Croatian (titled Povratak sa zvijezda).

So, hopefully You can find it too.

Best Regards.

peskanov

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Re: Ending of "Fiasco"
« Odpowiedź #11 dnia: Maj 03, 2006, 04:17:00 pm »
Hello there; in my opinion there are a lot of clues about the Quintians being fungus-like beings.

1st - They like rain; a lot of it. They built the ice ring that causes so much rain. In one of the -few- messages the Quintians send, they boast happily about that point, as a sign of prosperity.

2nd - They don't understand the concept of personal movility. The Quintians refuse to have face-to-face contact. Even at the end, being menaced, they allow the humans to take land and walk a bit in the cosmodrom, but don't speak about a possible face-to-face contact.
They built and left a present to the visitor, a puzzling one because they can not understand the human desire to have a face-to-face contact. Heck, they don't even have a face being fungus!

3rd - A tomographic scan of the whole planet shows massive groups of underground, calcic bulbs. The crew thinks -surely wrongly - that they are seeing the result of huge masacres.

4th - and last. Antennas, cords, and the final finding. What we see is that Quintians are static beings, that live buried.They communicate and feed using tubular extensions. Now you can understand why the reject (or don't understand) physical contact, and most of the happenings of the book can be seen under a different ligth. The space war - a war of communications - has sense for a static race as the Quintians, but it can be seen as a non-bloody war (maybe is even an sport or a religious ritual).

The result of that fantastic and huge misunderstanding is the death of the whole Quintian race at hand of the humans. And that's the real Fiasco!

Kagan

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Re: Ending of "Fiasco"
« Odpowiedź #12 dnia: Maj 03, 2006, 05:52:50 pm »
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That is very likely. Lem tends to sneak out of the necessity to describe things that would come out silly. And, to be hones, nearly every description of the alien race would be this or other way difficult/humoristic. He avoided it perfectly.

It was not first time Lem avoided describing the aliens. Maybe because in his first SF novel "Czlowiek z Marsa" ("Man of Mars") his portrait of a Martian was very naive (something like Dalek of DR WHO, but using a rather wooden language and too much technical details, which are now obsolete and rather ridiculous). In "Oblok Magellana" ("Magelannic Cloud") and "Astronauci" ("The Astronauts") he avoided descibing the aliens (first novel ends just before the contact, second describes Venus where Venusian killed themselves). In my humble opinion his best portrait of the aliens was in "Eden" (in "Solaris" it was Ocean and its, sometimes human-like "products", so it is a rather separate issue). As to "Fiasco" - ending is rather unsatisfactory,  as it is suggested that the Quintians were immobile, but how could they create material civilisations so closely resembling the human civilisation? Otherwise "Fiasco" is excellent...

peskanov

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Re: Ending of "Fiasco"
« Odpowiedź #13 dnia: Maj 03, 2006, 06:21:28 pm »
The answer of that question is also suggested on the book. Microorganism act as the "arms" of the Quintians.
I think the idea is based a bit on our fungus, which rely a lot on some microorganism to live.

I think Lem is suggesting here a possible evolution of fungus/bacteria symbiosys.

Btw, I don't see that close relationship between human and Quintian societies you mention!?  ???
Only technology is shown as similar, and this is not so strange. After all, the physical world is the same for all of us.

Kagan

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Re: Ending of "Fiasco"
« Odpowiedź #14 dnia: Maj 03, 2006, 07:03:15 pm »
I think that you try to be kind to Lem and to stretch the truth a little bit too far. Microrganisms are rather unable to create such things like wheel on the axis and even metal structures. Thus civilisation created by microorganisms would be very different to ours. I do think that we will be able to communicate with them by radio as Lem suggested... Physical word may be the same, but as it is seen very differentlynot only by insects, and even dogs and cats than by the humans, so I do not see any possibility of contact with such a strange civilisation, even as limited as in FIASCO. But I can be totally wrong!
Cheers! :)
Kagan

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The answer of that question is also suggested on the book. Microorganism act as the "arms" of the Quintians.
I think the idea is based a bit on our fungus, which rely a lot on some microorganism to live.
I think Lem is suggesting here a possible evolution of fungus/bacteria symbiosys.
Btw, I don't see that close relationship between human and Quintian societies you mention!?  ???
Only technology is shown as similar, and this is not so strange. After all, the physical world is the same for all of us.