Fiasco

[peskanov]

No doubt Wojtyla was a great philosopher. His conclusions were very profound.

If "Fides et ratio" is a good example of his philosophy, I disagree with you. Lots of faith but lacking analysis...  

[peskanov]

More mysteries about Fiasco.
In Quinta's moon, a huge underground complex exists to fuel an eternal, fast moving, plasma flame. It also seems an artificial atmosphere is created, made by inert gases. The flame radiates 1 billion joules; if I am not wrong, this is not a very strong energy source; it is comparable to a modern nuclear plant.

I don't think the mistery is explained in any part of the book. I thinked it's maybe related to the ice ring surrounding Quinta. Maybe a device to heat the ring from time to time to accelerate rainfalling...But it's to small and too far, so I am still puzzled about it.

Any idea?

[Terminus]

Melting ice in space to cause rainfalls? Well, that's pretty difficult, with 0 Kelvins 'onboard' (I mean absolute zero in the vacuum).

But You know, be Your theory true or not, You seem to be one of the few people here, who try to explain numerous mechanisms discovered among Lem's creations... and for that I'm sincerily grateful    

Besides, it proves You know "Fiasco" really good... I, myself, remember, that there was some moon, which was eventually destroyed... ehm... and that's about all

Cheers

[peskanov]

Melting ice in space to cause rainfalls? Well, that's pretty difficult, with 0 Kelvins 'onboard'  (I mean absolute zero in the vacuum).

What's the problem with that? The sun manages to heat the earth through a large large vacuum...It's a problem of absortion of radiation, although I reckon ice is highly reflective.
The question is that the flame is mobile, and the only reason I can imagine for this is moving it to heat different parts of the ring. But as I said, the energy seems quite low to make any effect on the ring.

But You know, be Your theory true or not, You seem to be one of the few people here, who try to explain numerous mechanisms discovered among Lem's creations... and for that I'm sincerily grateful

Thanks, I read Fiasco very recently but I use to re-read the books I like most, which means I have read all my Lem's books several times.
Sadly there is few people active in this forum, it seems the Polish side sees all the action. I will have to desist trying to make people comment on Fiasco.

Besides, it proves You know "Fiasco" really good... I, myself, remember, that there was some moon, which was eventually destroyed... ehm... and that's about all

It's certainly the most "hard SF" book I have read from Lem, along with "The invincible". I guess most people who liked "Cyberiad" or the Tichy tales, dislike hard sf. In my case, I like all Lem's styles with the exception of "The investigation" and "The chain of chance".
One of the most interesting aspects of Fiasco is the thinking about the SETI program, imo the best you can find in SF.

[Sternenfisch]

Any idea?

The Plasma he used a time before.
In his first SF-Book "The Astronauts" or "Planet of Death"
some space-traders had been buzzed from a black plasma, rinning out between the stones.
It was formally used to produce energy for a huge gravitation manipulating machine.
It was senseless, after his creators disappeared.

With the plasma on the moon of the quinta it is maybe some of this kind.
Maybe they had been a time on the moon, a base in the space or so.
And this was their relict, which they led lay their, because shutting down were to much work.

From the other side, it sounded (maybe german translation  got a influence in this way) like an temple.
A mythically Sense in this senseless thing, just spiing fire.
An old temple of the formally.

The only message seemed (for all of his works, except those with Tjchy):

As usually, Lem let destroy it, because it means something.
He just let survive some, which could think about the senselessnes of all

[peskanov]

Thank you very much for the reference Sogo; I have not read "The Astronauts", I think it has not been translated to English.
It's interesting, because in fact this is one the hypothesis mentioned in Fiasco: some kind of religious monument. Now that you told me that idea was used in other of his books, I feel more confident that's the correct answer.
A huge, eternal, moving flame as a religious monument. How puzzling

[Sternenfisch]

Some strange kind of religiousity we can find in much of Lem's Works. In "Pamietnik" (in the German Version its written under the german title, I think it should be the original polish) he describe what an allmight may think.
He relates it in the end, but I think to be patient with the readers, while he put the allmight into an moon, in which a machine growed.
The A.I. created his own little worlds inside.
Funny, see God playing.

In "Guest in Space", he let, in the end, our main-person, and some other on a meteor, to build a space-station.
It was not really necessary, because the planet, they aimed for contact was not far.
But they did it, and it was another ruin, a mark for the exploration of space.
Somewhere else he led a spacestation, full with frosted dead cold-war-americans flow through space.
The space-travellers found them, at a time, where wars only knowed by books.
Some other symbol.

Religious in some strange kind, maybe the endlessness of the universe is his ambivalence of god.
But thats only thought-plays, no one knows it, just Lem himself.

[Ronald_Zajac]

Greetings,

I have been intrigued by your discussion of Fiasco, having just finished the book (in English translation) today. Pardon me for arriving at this discussion a little late.

I agree that Father Arago is the conscience of the book and was quite moved, as a Catholic, at the way Lem included his perspective in the book though his own world view was atheistic.

I have three questions about the book. (WARNING: For those who are still reading it for the first time, there are plot spoilers ahead):

1) Given how Lem, both in Fiasco and especially in Solaris, expounds repeatedly on the difficulty, if not the impossibility, of contact between two biologically different intelligent species, I was more than a little surprised to discover that suddenly, in the late chapters of Fiasco, the Quintans are able to send messages to the Hermes that can translate into lines of computerized text.

I thought at first this was Deus translating the Quintans' equivalent of the Hermes' "Cartoon," but this seems implausible. How do you explain this sudden unexplained breakthrough in communication?

2) Tempe's death at the end clearly mirrors his misadventure in Birnam Wood: he was excessively adventurous and wandered a little too far. However:

a) Could not his spacesuit have been equipped with some sort of device allowing for emergency communication outside the vehicle?

b) Would not the Quintans have fired back a message at the Hermes warning them that their emissary had literally "crossed the line" and they are no longer responsible for his fate?

Minor quibbles, perhaps, in an otherwise superb novel.

Cheers,

Ronald Zajac,
Canada