Autor Wątek: about the Polish language  (Przeczytany 22176 razy)

Metalist

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Re: about the Polish language
« Odpowiedź #15 dnia: Luty 12, 2006, 11:13:46 pm »
This is sort of besides the point, but I just thought it was interesting how some Polish words are very similar in their structure and definition to Russian
e.g. Baika in Russian is a bedtime story
and then there are words like
obwarować is to fortify (in Polish)
but in Russian

obvarovat' means - to rob (a house)
« Ostatnia zmiana: Luty 12, 2006, 11:14:30 pm wysłana przez Metalist »

pirxowa

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Re: about the Polish language
« Odpowiedź #16 dnia: Luty 13, 2006, 12:08:15 am »
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obwarować is to fortify (in Polish)
but in Russian

obvarovat' means - to rob (a house)


Doesn't it come from the gangster slang?

If so, there may be a link between "obwarować" and "obvarovat' " :
"warować" may mean "to watch, to guard", like a dog, for example. But "to watch" or even "to watch patiently" seems to be a better translation.

Now from the viewpoint of a robber,  his work must be preceded by a longer observation of a house to be robbed.  Which means patient watching but from the other side of walls, so to say.

This explanation may be reasonable. (Native Polish speakers, please compare with "obczaić").

Deckard

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Re: about the Polish language
« Odpowiedź #17 dnia: Luty 13, 2006, 10:18:44 am »
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Ehm, are you really Polish?
"kilkunastu" means of course "somewhere in the teens". In other words: "a number between 11 and 19".


You are absolutely right. I made a mistake.

CU
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Terminus

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Re: about the Polish language
« Odpowiedź #18 dnia: Luty 13, 2006, 11:37:44 pm »
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Polish words are very similar in their structure and definition to Russian
e.g. Baika in Russian is a bedtime story



Yes, there are many similarities and we have lots  of words common/similar-to with the Russians. Such as 'chodzic', 'ty', 'reka' and much, much more...

(Though I don't speak Russian, I like it alot, by the way...)
« Ostatnia zmiana: Luty 13, 2006, 11:38:11 pm wysłana przez Terminus »

innate

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Re: about the Polish language
« Odpowiedź #19 dnia: Luty 15, 2006, 03:44:30 am »
I'm tired of translating "uczony" as "scholar". I wanted to use "scientist", but I saw that it has its own nauk- or nauc- word which I can't remember at the moment. "Researcher" sounds right from context, but I see there's "badacz" for that. "Uczony" is used consistently when talking about work in the sciences, but, to me, "scholar" suggests a person on the other side of CP Snow's cultural divide. (Perhaps a little like how "intellectual" as a noun more or less means "literary intellectual" today.) So, umm, would "researcher" be wrong?

Terminus

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Re: about the Polish language
« Odpowiedź #20 dnia: Luty 15, 2006, 03:51:09 am »
Well, 'researcher', in my opinion, wouldn't go right with 'uczony'. I'd rather say that 'uczony' says not much more than that the person knows a LOT. And that's basically it.
This world is nowadays almost out of use, but when it appears, it has this meaning.
In Lem's writings, however, it meant 'scientist'.

innate

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Re: about the Polish language
« Odpowiedź #21 dnia: Luty 15, 2006, 06:15:38 am »
Ah, it hadn't occurred to me to ask about idiosyncratic usage. Are there certain things that I should be looking out for in my Lem readings? (I did read somewhere that his Polish is supposed to be old-fashioned in general, but of course it all looks the same to me.)

Miranda

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Re: about the Polish language
« Odpowiedź #22 dnia: Luty 15, 2006, 09:25:05 am »
I am interested in Lems Polish as well. What is it like? How can you discribe his style and the phrases he uses?
Is it complicated language or rather simple?

(Polish is a very beautiful language. I am studying it but am still far away from judging Lems language myself).

pirxowa

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Re: about the Polish language
« Odpowiedź #23 dnia: Luty 15, 2006, 10:53:49 am »
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Well, 'researcher', in my opinion, wouldn't go right with 'uczony'. I'd rather say that 'uczony' says not much more than that the person knows a LOT. And that's basically it.
This world is nowadays almost out of use, but when it appears, it has this meaning.
In Lem's writings, however, it meant 'scientist'.



Native English speakers, please correct me if my intuitions are wrong:

1. Researcher ("badacz") is someone who carries out the research.
2. Scholar ("uczony"), as I understand this word, is someone who belongs to academia.
However, http://dictionary.reference.com/ says: Scholar: a learned person (especially in the humanities); someone who by long study has gained mastery in one or more disciplines.
3. Scientist ("naukowiec") is actually the same as researcher. A person who 'does science'. A profession.
« Ostatnia zmiana: Luty 15, 2006, 11:06:12 am wysłana przez pirxowa »

pirxowa

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Re: about the Polish language
« Odpowiedź #24 dnia: Luty 15, 2006, 11:01:56 am »
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I am interested in Lems Polish as well. What is it like? How can you discribe his style and the phrases he uses?
Is it complicated language or rather simple?

(Polish is a very beautiful language. I am studying it but am still far away from judging Lems language myself).


Lem's language and style is very diverse across different novels. I think that the best for you would be to read his letters to an  English translator, where Lem himself tries to explain what his language is like.
In: Stanisław Lem, "Listy albo opór materii", Wydawnictwo Literackie
http://www.wl.net.pl/ksiazka.php?ID=488

Deckard

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Re: about the Polish language
« Odpowiedź #25 dnia: Luty 16, 2006, 01:22:21 am »
Just like pirxowa wrote Lem's Polish was different from book to book. Take for instance Golem XIV which is pretty complicated even for us down here in Poland. But after all the complexity of Golem's speach was intended to emphasize Golem's diversity from humans. Bomba megabitowa (which was not yet translated into English) is a bunch of esseys. Lem uses here a language of a philosopher. Many sentences are filled with uncommon words. Some of' em are taken from Latin. Other books like for example Astronauci or Głos Pana is rather a typical language used in novels. But at this point I gotta say that typical language is given in a great form, which means it's coherent, syntactic correct, and sometimes full of poetic inspiration.

CU
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innate

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Re: about the Polish language
« Odpowiedź #26 dnia: Luty 16, 2006, 03:54:15 am »
Latin: Are there places where it is still routinely taught? I always have to skip over the expressions. Speaking of which, I saw that Ritch was recently considering gathering them and coming up with translations. Sounds like a good idea to me.

pirxowa

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Re: about the Polish language
« Odpowiedź #27 dnia: Luty 16, 2006, 10:05:38 am »
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Latin: Are there places where it is still routinely taught?


Sure. Especially, in German-speaking countries there are a lot of highschools ("humanistische Gymnasien") , where ancient Greek and Latin are obligatory.  In Poland there are no distinguished schools of this kind but, instead, in all highschools a classical curriculum with obligatory Latin may be chosen.

« Ostatnia zmiana: Luty 16, 2006, 10:23:39 am wysłana przez pirxowa »

pirxowa

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Re: about the Polish language
« Odpowiedź #28 dnia: Luty 16, 2006, 10:22:40 am »
BTW. I'll tell you the easiest way to find out the meaning of latin sentences: www.google.com :-)

innate

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Re: about the Polish language
« Odpowiedź #29 dnia: Luty 19, 2006, 10:27:40 am »
What's doń? I figure it's probably the genitive plural of something, but I don't know what...