Autor Wątek: how robots treat humans in Lem's stories?  (Przeczytany 8508 razy)

droid17

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how robots treat humans in Lem's stories?
« dnia: Marzec 21, 2007, 05:59:51 am »
hi there everyone! :)

can someone tell me all the details of how robots/AI treat humans and how they view them or what they think of them??? :-?

i don't have any of those books of robots stories that Lem wrote in the past :'( and that is why I'm asking so much questions :P, sorry. :-[

and sorry about my bad English. :-[


draco_volantus

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Re: how robots treat humans in Lem's stories?
« Odpowiedź #1 dnia: Marzec 21, 2007, 02:29:25 pm »
GOLEM XIV was pacifist :)

Deckert

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Re: how robots treat humans in Lem's stories?
« Odpowiedź #2 dnia: Marzec 21, 2007, 05:24:25 pm »
Golem XIV an artificial intelligence computer is probably one of the best examples of Lem's stories of humans and artificial entities living and working together. It's worthy explaining why Golem was against military solutions for different kind of social or political problems. This is actually one of the matters the whole novel is all about. Golem's AI advanced to a lot higher level than human intelligence. Golem started to be not only a high-tech machine but a mentor for human scientists, polititians, philosophers and many others. Many people admit that wars are likely to be not logical, because wars lead to new military conflicts in future (vide Bertrand Russell). People ought to find other resolutions. Golem had the same outlook.

People were astonished at Golem. He seemed to have all the answers, that's why people thought very high of him and treated him as a greatest philosopher of all times. On the other hand Golem treated us as children. It was quite problematic for him to talk to us because he was thinking about too complicating things to easily transfer that knowledge even to very wise people. I wouldn't like to tell you all that story [ch8211] You should read it.

CU
Deck

Terminus

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Re: how robots treat humans in Lem's stories?
« Odpowiedź #3 dnia: Marzec 23, 2007, 01:20:36 pm »
Well, it's characteristic for Lem not to assume any hostilities between AI and it's creators. Logical, isn't it? As Deckard has said, it is long known for intelligent people (Russell...) that wars aren't worth fighting. Why then super-human AI-s wouldn't know that?
Only in one of the Pirx stories (namely "The Inquest" a.k.a. "The Trial" (,,Rozprawa'')) we're dealing with AI which behaves in a way threating people. It is however not caused by any particular hostility, but by the fact that humans threatened its existence.

And so on...

droid17

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Re: how robots treat humans in Lem's stories?
« Odpowiedź #4 dnia: Kwiecień 06, 2007, 06:32:54 am »
Cytuj
Only in one of the Pirx stories (namely "The Inquest" a.k.a. "The Trial" (,,Rozprawa'')) we're dealing with AI which behaves in a way threating people. It is however not caused by any particular hostility, but by the fact that humans threatened its existence.  

can you tell me more details of that story please?
in what way those humans threatened that AI? what kind of personality that AI use to have?
etc, etc, etc.....???????

Cytuj
Well, it's characteristic for Lem not to assume any hostilities between AI and it's creators. Logical, isn't it? As Deckard has said, it is long known for intelligent people (Russell...) that wars aren't worth fighting. Why then super-human AI-s wouldn't know that?

well in The Cyberiad: Fables for the Cybernetic Age, most of the robots characters think of humans like some kind of "monsters" and a kind of inferior life forms.
in the Mortal Engines book the robots also dislike or are afraid of humans as if they were "demons" (even though, WE ARE worst than that in the real life >:() they even hunt humans and stuff them so the other robots could see them.

dom

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Re: how robots treat humans in Lem's stories?
« Odpowiedź #5 dnia: Kwiecień 24, 2007, 09:27:54 pm »
[justify]I just finish reading Bajki-Robotow (Contes Inoxydables in French). The ways in which humans are treated by robots in certain stories make think to me a little to The Planet of Apes. Just like monkeys, robots regard human as an abominable calamity and the rare specimens which they meet are exhibited in cages like animals in a zoo. However the thing is treated with more humour than in Pierre Boulle[ch8217]s novel.[/justify]

Mieslaw

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Re: how robots treat humans in Lem's stories?
« Odpowiedź #6 dnia: Kwiecień 24, 2007, 10:16:54 pm »
In the polish section we had a guy who needed help with his "matura" in Polish (my dictionary suggests 'secondary-school leaving examination' or 'high school finals') - for the speaking part. His topic was 'connections between Lem and other SF writers' or something like that. (somaone compared it to 'war art by Gandhi'  ;)).

In the discussion we decided that robots' rebellion (often described in SF) appears in Lem's Star Diaries (Dzienniki Gwiazdowe), in the story Tragedia pralnicza - I'd translate it as washing machines tragedy.


Below I'll write what it is about:

Washing mashines are getting better and better.
Their equipment is getting better.
They get AI.
First armed washing machines are produced!
New models look like human beings (eg actresses  :D ).
Washing machines are becoming members of Parliment.
Washing machines mafia is created.
There is a big problem ;D

Terminus

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Re: how robots treat humans in Lem's stories?
« Odpowiedź #7 dnia: Kwiecień 25, 2007, 11:12:46 am »
Actually, although I agree that the treatment of humans in Bajki Robotów (as far as I know, english title is Mortal Engines) is specific, and it may remind Planet of the Apes, I must say that it wouldn't be fair to flatten this matter by not considering the fact, that it serves a purpose. And I mighty important one, too.
The thing is, that when robots consider themselves superior to humans (knowing, that humans actually created them, as roboto-mythology indicates) they commit a kind of blasphemy, denying their creators glory. They consider humans a link in the evolution chain, linking them to protein-based creatures, suggesting that robots actually evolved from humans; forgetting the act of creation. It wasn't evolution, it was creation.
And Lem was fully aware of that fact. Therefore he introduces this robot-human events as a kind of amusement, builds the climax using the fact of misunderstanding. That's my opinion.

wetal

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Re: how robots treat humans in Lem's stories?
« Odpowiedź #8 dnia: Maj 16, 2007, 02:43:03 pm »
But men turn out to be cleverer than their descendants(the episode in "Baiki robotow" when a guy took a key from the princess and escaped or when Pirx send malfunctioned machine to waste in "Terminus" ).Robots more frequently fall into stupid situations.Or even act like people.Golem is an exception.

droid17

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Re: how robots treat humans in Lem's stories?
« Odpowiedź #9 dnia: Maj 31, 2007, 07:01:53 am »
thank you all guys for the answers, it really helped me.

now i have to get all those Lem's robots/AI books but in Spanish since i understand Spanish better than English.
the problem is that many of those robots/AI books had their titles change in a very different way in their Spanish version from the English version.

Terminus

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Re: how robots treat humans in Lem's stories?
« Odpowiedź #10 dnia: Czerwiec 01, 2007, 11:33:17 am »
Now, that's no problem. Taken from www.lem.pl:

Spanish

Bajki robotow=Mortal Engines=Fabulas de robots=El breviario de los robots
Cyberiada=The Cyberiad=Ciberiada
Doskonala Proznia=A Perfect Vacuum=Vacio perfecto
Dzienniki gwiazdowe=The Star Diaries=Diarios de las estrellas
Eden=Eden=Eden      
Fiasko=Fiasco=Fiasco
Glos Pana=His Master's Voice=La voz de Suamo
Katar=The Chan of Chance=La fiebre del hieno
Kongres futurologiczny=The Futurological Congress=El congreso e futurologia
Niezwyciezony=The Invincible=El Invencible
Opowiesci o pilocie Pirxie=Tales of Pirx the Pilot=Relatos del piloto Pirx
Pamietnik znaleziony w wannie=Memoir Found in a Bathtub=Memorias encotraadas en una banera=Memorias encontradas numa banheira
Powrot z gwiazd=Return from the Stars=Retorno de las estrellas
Solaris=Solaris=Solaris
Sledztwo=The Investigation=La investigacion
Wielkosc urojona=Imaginary Magnitude=Un valor imaginario
Wizja lokalna=Eyewitness Account=Regreso a enta
      

... and that's basically it.