Autor Wątek: Summa technologiae  (Przeczytany 31580 razy)

Pirx

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Summa technologiae
« dnia: Kwiecień 26, 2005, 12:09:24 am »
I'm reading Summa technologiae end I am surprised because this book is stil actual. How do you think? I want  to now. I'm fourteen end I'm not so clever like you. :)

Terminus

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Re: Summa technologiae
« Odpowiedź #1 dnia: Kwiecień 26, 2005, 03:06:43 am »
Aha, got you again. So the fervid 14yr-olds attack once more :]

I haven't read Summa yet, so no help from me, but I'm surely glad you're trying. Hope you enjoy.
« Ostatnia zmiana: Kwiecień 26, 2005, 03:06:57 am wysłana przez Terminus »

SoGo

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Re: Summa technologiae
« Odpowiedź #2 dnia: Kwiecień 27, 2005, 07:54:57 pm »
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I'm fourteen end I'm not so clever like you. :)


Noone knows  ;D, maybe you are the most clever one we ever looked.

Yeah, you're right, the SUMMA is still actual.
That's because Lem looked so far in Future of Technology, or better is able to do so.
A real Futurologist, let's hope other visions he had will be real soon (GOLEM IV  :) )

Deckert

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Re: Summa technologiae
« Odpowiedź #3 dnia: Maj 12, 2005, 10:42:40 am »
Wow.... I've found a thread posted by Pirx himself? Now, that's a discovery! How it happened that I haven't noticed that thread before? Guess I gotta review english forum more often...

Well Pirx, in answer to your query, I haven't read Summa yet, but it's on my list. However, I read Megabit Bomb (I hope that's a right english title :-)) and I think it's a continuation of many ideas Mr. Lem introduced in Summa. So if you wanna chat about it, just go ahead.

Terminus

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Re: Summa technologiae
« Odpowiedź #4 dnia: Maj 12, 2005, 01:36:22 pm »
Bomba megabitowa was not translated into english at all, Deck.
« Ostatnia zmiana: Maj 12, 2005, 01:36:43 pm wysłana przez Terminus »

Deckert

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Re: Summa technologiae
« Odpowiedź #5 dnia: Maj 12, 2005, 01:58:00 pm »
Well, I didn't know...  :-[

Terminus

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Re: Summa technologiae
« Odpowiedź #6 dnia: Maj 17, 2005, 01:49:20 am »
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let's hope other visions he had will be real soon (GOLEM IV  :) )


Are you really that eagerly lookin' forward to talking to Golem IVX or his lookalikes? Would it be that much pleasure to answer Golem's questions? Like 'why did you made me', be that the example...



Deckert

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Re: Summa technologiae
« Odpowiedź #7 dnia: Maj 17, 2005, 10:20:21 am »
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A real Futurologist, let's hope other visions he had will be real soon (GOLEM IV  :) )


I feel much optimism in this sentence. I know that Mr. Lem is not that satisfied with what he had forseen in his books. We've been a lot talking about it on polish forum. Every discovery we make has a positive and negative impact. It's our choice how we're gonna use the latest discoveries. Remember, that Golem's precursors were designed for one and only purpose - perfect extermination of the enemy.

SoGo

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Re: Summa technologiae
« Odpowiedź #8 dnia: Maj 17, 2005, 09:01:10 pm »
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Are you really that eagerly lookin' forward to talking to Golem IVX or his lookalikes? Would it be that much pleasure to answer Golem's questions? Like 'why did you made me', be that the example...




Answering this question is as interesting as asking him questions.
Even if we don't know the answers.

SoGo

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Re: Summa technologiae
« Odpowiedź #9 dnia: Maj 17, 2005, 09:03:19 pm »
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It's our choice how we're gonna use the latest discoveries. Remember, that Golem's precursors were designed for one and only purpose - perfect extermination of the enemy.


He is not satisfied, and maybe because of this it will happen.

perfect extermination of the enemy - yes, for this is (Golem) has been produced, but what did happen?
I don't see the destroying potential in this look into the future, only his intellect, as million as fast as ours.

Terminus

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Re: Summa technologiae
« Odpowiedź #10 dnia: Maj 18, 2005, 02:36:46 am »
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Answering this question is as interesting as asking him questions.
Even if we don't know the answers.


Mind this: asking questions to AI is actually asking them to ourselves. Will AI ever exist, or not, we shall be it's creators. Therefore it will bear our eternal mark - it will be our reflection, flawed in the same ways we are, brilliant no more than us...  
Talking to a mirror - that's what Lem argued so often about. When looking for another life in the Universe, humanity seeks mirrors - the only otherness people can imagine.

Deckert

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Re: Summa technologiae
« Odpowiedź #11 dnia: Maj 18, 2005, 10:15:32 am »
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He is not satisfied, and maybe because of this it will happen.

perfect extermination of the enemy - yes, for this is (Golem) has been produced, but what did happen?
I don't see the destroying potential in this look into the future, only his intellect, as million as fast as ours.


Sogo, it looks like you're the great fan of AI. I may be wrong, but this is what goes straight from your sentences quoted above.
OK, Golems predecessors were indeed produced for one purpose - to eliminate the enemy. It was the time of the Cold War. They were, if I remember well, fully featured AI machines. But they had some internal blockades limitating their free will. Golem XIV was the first one with erased blockades, so he (or it) was able to develope his own self-consciousness, emotions, feelings and so on...
He became maybe the greates philosopher we ever had. Finally it turned out that his thoughts were too difficult for us, more over it was not that easy for Golem himself to share his thoughts with us. He found our human language too limited for knowledge sharing process.
OK, now I think that Lem's look-aheads are not related to his emotions, as you stated it in the first sentence of your answer. Lem is in some part a scientist, philosopher and who knows what else... ;) And this is why his visions of future comes true. His fiction is based on the very science.

As I mentioned before, I haven't read Summa yet, but I read Megabit Bomb (that's my translation of the book's title (in polish - Bomba Megabitowa), that was not yet translated into english - Terminus - thanks for your remind) and I figured out that Mr. Lem's attitude to the latest techno-scientific discoveries is negative.

So if you believe you don't see a destroying potential in AI it's because we still don't know how to build it. At the moment it's just beyond of our reach. Experiments are in progress but there are no results so far.

CU,
Deckard
« Ostatnia zmiana: Maj 18, 2005, 12:49:38 pm wysłana przez Deckert »

Deckert

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Re: Summa technologiae
« Odpowiedź #12 dnia: Maj 18, 2005, 10:33:44 am »
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Talking to a mirror - that's what Lem argued so often about. When looking for another life in the Universe, humanity seeks mirrors - the only otherness people can imagine.


That's a nice opinion. Yes, we are looking for mirrors. We do a lot to seek out some extraterrestial life forms in outer space, while it might be possible that we find one quite close. This is such a great humankind's dream to discover some other intelligence, that this whole AI may be, in my opinion, some kind of a substitute of this ET that can be never discovered.

In the beginning of AI existence (I think about something similar to Golem) we will be talking to mirrors, but later (it will be dependant on the level of AI), it might be quite difficult to talk to this mirror, coz' mirror will try to seek the mirror of it self. Jus as Golem was doing... he wanted so much to get in touch with Honest Annie...

Terminus

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Re: Summa technologiae
« Odpowiedź #13 dnia: Maj 20, 2005, 12:34:48 am »
Honnest Annie, as far as I remember, was not as advanced as Golem 14 was, but still better than us :) No wonder. Besides, you know... she was a lady...

dzi

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Re: Summa technologiae
« Odpowiedź #14 dnia: Maj 20, 2005, 09:53:35 am »
She was more advanced than GOLEM, she was at the level he decided to enter at the end of the book before him.