Stanisław Lem - Forum

English => Forum in English => Wątek zaczęty przez: sami w Kwiecień 22, 2004, 11:09:43 pm

Tytuł: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: sami w Kwiecień 22, 2004, 11:09:43 pm
superconciousness controls ecosystems, and gives grace to 'life'
---
humans:
-are transcendental, enjoys liberated spritual life,
-all scale structures are 'coherent': they restores resistivity against
disorders,
*interaction is perpetually inspiration or mental 'mercy' (humans brains regenerates
continously and develop sensitively)
*due to spiritual values, huge materialism disappears totally because spiritual life
needs only intelligent feeding
*all people have raised their curiosity and intelligent with perfect inpiration: their
actions deliver
new stimuluses to each others brainstructures
-every lifeform is 'straight' and grows optimally without any insults, distrubances,
confusions,limitations
----
"awareness is so comprehensive and creative that it spontaneously eliminates
all that is not helpful to life and progress, and spontaneously absorbs all that is
life-supporting."
"produces strong influence of positivity and harmony which supports and enriches
the evolutionary quality of Natural Law and nourishes all life."
-perfect information delivers intantly everywhere and system can anticipate without delay
all changes of variables.
(parts of philosophy is presented by maharishi)
human living blissful spiritual life have loosen from limitations of body, communicates
only to delight each others and to evolution harmony
..more loose ideas (one can develop these freely)
99% of technology is waste it serves materiality
'people dont need this technology',
they could be happy in a cave with all-blissful brainstimulator and communicator
or practise yoga and possibly have devices what teach motor skills and
take care of physical health with own exercises'
then humans are intelligent enough when they want (following fully internationalized
rules of being creative without causing damage to sensitive ecosystems or spiritual
community) to do science, technology
human brain consists of braincells what develop new structures like trees widens
their brances. every human has a 'working field' what inspires their growth and brings
outer order
even most of humans body is 'waste' for spiritual life what happens in nervoussystem
*invent necessary technology to keep and stimulate human braincortex and be independent
from lower bodyfunctions
*food: electromagnetic recovery, syntetic blood (to deliver oxygen and nutritions without
using stomach, energy to muscles), replicators for necessary chemicals
*for example personal thin cybersuite can transform energy from light, recycle water,
put body to lower temperature, shut down body functions and produce nutrition
*for example radiotechnology connects people globally; they are aware, using their full
capacity and transfer information without delays and function like one concious flock
**conciousness can use all brainpotential to solve intelligent problems
(this is just technology between human brains now separated into billions of noncommunicating
parts who has prejudices, are drown to keep own material bodies alive and many times
blindly living own limited world-view with misbeliefs or misfuctions forgotten or
not following righteous way of healthy possible life)  ;)
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: danilo w Maj 27, 2004, 03:55:20 pm
you are big!  :o

::)
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Terminus w Luty 01, 2005, 05:19:07 am
The fans of polisoliptism should also judge this :) It's somewhat similarily long as their possts :)
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Sternenfisch w Luty 03, 2005, 12:10:16 pm
Perhaps you could say it easilier, much more:
Conciousness are our added memory(you may tell it experience) and knowledge.
So, for superconciousness you just must live a million years, read a million books, made it through a million years of live between normal people and remember all of this, then you have a superconciousness.
:)
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Terminus w Luty 04, 2005, 01:00:26 pm
Buehehe... so it's just a matter of scale  ;)
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: wetal w Luty 14, 2005, 11:45:26 am
Were you talking about Alter Ego ?AS for superconsciousness it `s only a dream that can`t be realised.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Sternenfisch w Luty 14, 2005, 12:19:58 pm
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AS for superconsciousness it `s only a dream that can`t be realised.


And why it can't be realized?
Is it physically impossible to construct that is able to do what I wrote?
Don't think so.
And Computer like Golem IV has an superconciousness (or is nearer on it than we are), because he has so much knowledge and experiences.

A Stone don't remember much, therefore he had only little conciousness. superconciousness is the conciousness beyond the critical line.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Sternenfisch w Luty 14, 2005, 12:20:58 pm
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Buehehe... so it's just a matter of scale  ;)


It look's like, even if it sound shocking for some  ;D
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Sternenfisch w Luty 14, 2005, 12:27:44 pm
The first Topic looks like a typical Product of Antrophozentrism.
We should try to build the perfect thinking thing, not try to modify our inperferct brains, if we want superconciousness.
Our Brain mustn't be the best thing to think with, and it is surely not able to make operations as fast as the slowest computer.

It's the brilliant of the evolution, but not more.
Nothing perfect, nothing holy, nothing which can't have better alternatives.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: wetal w Luty 16, 2005, 05:21:02 pm
Well the first steps are made in China if i`m not mistaken was made a computer that can forecast events that will occur.It has the model of awhole planet......something like this.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Sternenfisch w Luty 17, 2005, 03:34:35 pm
Interesting.
Which kind of events?
Sociality, Enviroment or so?
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Karel w Luty 18, 2005, 07:46:10 am
I guess environment and weather,  it is very interesting! more info will be welcome
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Terminus w Luty 20, 2005, 12:04:05 am
Bet it forecasts the future of comunism, I guess  ;)

I'm not convinced by that definition of 'superconciousness' you're providing. Well... maybe I don't understand the word 'super'?
In my understanding a 'super'-something is signifficantly different that just something and this being 'super' cannot be archieved just by continous increasing of some characteristics. You, for instance,  persist with the judgement that 'superconciousness' can be built in a form of a computer. But if such a machine existed - what would differ it from a really wise (let's theoretically say 'infinitely wise' )  human?  It would remember virtually everything, would be eloquent 'and stuff' but what else? Why would it be 'super'? I don't get it.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Sternenfisch w Luty 22, 2005, 07:43:20 pm
 :) Yeah, you are good.  :)

The Computer has only a superconsciousness if we define superconsciousness with this abilitys, but only then.

With other ones, and you are free to choose them, it is not.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Sternenfisch w Luty 22, 2005, 07:45:36 pm
The bottom defination of superconsciousness is a miss.
If we were robots, the enviroment wouldn't care us.
Even the life wouldn't do.
But Robots have mind.

So we must tell it - humanlike superconsciousness
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Sternenfisch w Luty 22, 2005, 07:48:35 pm
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Bet it forecasts the future of comunism, I guess  ;)


If they got the forecast, I think they will wrecked the machine up rapidly.
Maybe
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Karel w Luty 23, 2005, 08:26:41 am
Chinese are not Europeans, they can accept communism... (although regime in China is increasingly "capitalistic", it is especial hybrid)
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Terminus w Luty 23, 2005, 01:42:59 pm
Yes, I noticed their version of comunism is slightly different that what we had here. Well... as long as its alright for them, they do what they want.

cheers
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: wetal w Marzec 02, 2005, 04:06:50 pm
By the way you have forgotten North Korea with their wicked leader KIm Chen Ir - half man-half god, they have atomic weapon , even americans can`t stop them.
The worst is that they are communists.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Terminus w Marzec 02, 2005, 11:28:38 pm
Well now, that's serious. North Korea suffers from totalitarism. It's true.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Sternenfisch w Marzec 07, 2005, 12:49:39 pm
If someone is a dictator, then Kim Yong Ill is.
In a Communistic Land, he had get the might from his father, like it is usually in royal-goverments.

But the worst enemy for the communist is royality.
How can he hold his might?
I think only with his nuclear bombs and the military.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: wetal w Marzec 10, 2005, 04:02:42 pm
I saw a documentary film about North Korea. Americans did it . It showed korean people as zombies who worship to their leader, their libraries have only books of Kim Er Sen and his son Kim Chen Ir . Their industry works only for military complex . People suffer from hunger but take the dictatorship over. How can it be?
People are just simply brainwashed. The same happened in the  former USSR.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Terminus w Marzec 10, 2005, 07:49:22 pm
I'm not sure if ,,brainwash'' is the method, at least I don't think it was like that in USRR. Wasn't it just like that people were terrorized? What about NKVD for instance? Criticizing Stalin was, as we all know, not  a safe thing to do. ..
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: wetal w Marzec 12, 2005, 01:50:39 pm
For jokes about Stalin you could go to a concentration camp for a term of 20 years, My grandma knew one of such men who wasn`t in Stalin`s camp for the whole period but died soon after the returnig.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: wetal w Kwiecień 04, 2005, 01:45:07 pm
Back to superconsciousness
I looked through Golem 14- a highly intellectual thinking machine with unlimited abilities in all branches of science. I guess it is all about him.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Sternenfisch w Kwiecień 05, 2005, 08:34:55 pm
Yeah, but If you know all about the universe around the human, you KNOW the Human.
Isn't it  :)
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Terminus w Kwiecień 12, 2005, 03:09:14 am
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If you know all about the universe around the human, you KNOW the Human.


It's not true! I mean not unless we're talking about human character, type of personality etc. It's not a construct that grows depending on a weather condidions!
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: wetal w Kwiecień 12, 2005, 04:31:26 pm
I can agree with So Go`s statement about humans surrounding or environment.If you know the details connected with a personality you also can know about him.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Terminus w Kwiecień 14, 2005, 12:13:43 am
I guess that a behaviour of a man can only be predicted with a precise probablity, which (probablity) is never absolute. The behaviour of a concious being is, in my opinion,  never fully determined.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Sternenfisch w Kwiecień 18, 2005, 01:22:44 pm
Yeah, its not fully determined.
Golem IV, for example, didn't know the personality of every human. But he knowed all about the human activity as Mankind, as the mass.

You know where the way lays, but everyone move on it on his special way.

"It's not a construct that grows depending on a weather condidions!"
;D Right, but a funny idea.  ;D
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Terminus w Kwiecień 19, 2005, 01:13:11 am
Sure. Statistics is a powerfull and useful tool (how could I think any different, as a mathematician), but we should never underestimate the meaing and importance of an indiviual being.

Psychology of the masses is an unique and crazy game, where statistics mixes with absurd; as when the large mass, center-weighted around some precise point-of-view, suddenly starts to obey one individual... Take Hitler for instance. That's an example of an individual able to generate national obedience without much terror (unlike Stalin).  All he needed was some good slogan and a few crumbles from the table of prosperity.

I'm no expert of sociology. All I tried to prove, is that everyone of us somewhat unique ( hihi, I know what You'll say:  most of us is unique in quite similar ways... ) . Makes no point to quarell over that.

Cheers
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Sternenfisch w Kwiecień 23, 2005, 10:36:08 pm
The Masses are one of the most interesting objects.
For this I would say you should look "Der Musterschüler" , basing on a novel by Stephen King.

In the End, Kurt Lussander, formally KZ-Aufseher is dead, you see the boy which he had made evil.

And then come the song "Das ist Berlin"
by Marlene Dietrich.
Never be so scared by my own history.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: can-chi-suk w Maj 23, 2005, 07:30:05 am
Has anyone ever heard of the "Collective Superunconscious" theory?
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Terminus w Maj 24, 2005, 02:35:49 am
Not really. Tell us about it then !
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Sternenfisch w Maj 25, 2005, 06:18:08 pm
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Has anyone ever heard of the "Collective Superunconscious" theory?


Please, tell it.
Do you mean, the one which Heine has got in one of his novels?

Listen up:
There are some birds on the east coast of the USA, which had learned to open milk bottles and drunk them.
After a while, all milk bottles had been drunken out.
The knowledge, how to drink milk bottles raised up farther more than the population did.
Something in that way?
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: wetal w Maj 26, 2005, 03:25:07 pm
I guess that collective consciousness is not a case with birds but something connected with the intelligence of highly developed beings like humans, human rase as a whole. A kind of network that connects minds.
It may be Internet in some way if the other is excluded.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Terminus w Maj 27, 2005, 12:29:06 am
Well, I'd dare to state profoundly, that when one human learns to open milk bottles, others shall rapidly know it also, because of the internet... Praise the Web ::)
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Sternenfisch w Maj 30, 2005, 12:59:27 pm
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Praise the Web ::)

Connecting People  :)
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: cckeiser w Maj 30, 2005, 07:00:41 pm
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Has anyone ever heard of the "Collective Superunconscious" theory?


It is called The Singularity.

The idea started here:
http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~phoenix/vinge/vinge-sing.html
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: cckeiser w Maj 30, 2005, 07:48:22 pm
"We are not Rational creatures, we are Rationalizing creatures."

It is not a rational, logical, and intelligent mind that distinguishes man. It is our insanity. Insanity is our Muse and our creative genius. It is our insanity that allows us to dream and then create that which did not previously exist.
We can build a Thinking machine and endow it with logic and artificial intelligence, but unless we can drive it insane it will never dream.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Terminus w Maj 31, 2005, 02:52:34 am
Hmm... nicely said ::)

But that won't stop us! We'll kick the machines into pure insanity by, let's see... by making them watch 'The Simpsons' mixed with weather forecasts for Zimbabwe for 150 yrs straight... Noone can take that ::)
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: cckeiser w Maj 31, 2005, 06:33:51 am
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Hmm... nicely said ::)

But that won't stop us! We'll kick the machines into pure insanity by, let's see... by making them watch 'The Simpsons' mixed with weather forecasts for Zimbabwe for 150 yrs straight... Noone can take that ::)


I have a better idea, and it will work much faster.
Just make it read Poly-Solipsism six times!! ;o)
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Sternenfisch w Czerwiec 09, 2005, 03:45:20 pm
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Just make it read Poly-Solipsism six times!! ;o)

;D
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: wetal w Czerwiec 20, 2005, 12:28:35 pm
CCKEISER said we can make thinking machines.
Unfortunately we can`t. Do you remember CYBERIAD where Trurl is a creator of the most stupid thinking machines, humans resemble him. Nobody will think, I mean machines, better than we do.
Sorry, that I tear off the quotations from the context.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: def w Grudzień 08, 2005, 01:11:11 am
Why dont you make them read the point blank books (awful). that would do it
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Miranda w Grudzień 08, 2005, 12:58:10 pm
What about the superunconciousness now?

Is the web the superconciousness or its unconcious part? Is information on the web the sedimented knowledge that penetrated culture so deeply that it became its unconciousness? Or does what we can´t bear in concious life survive on the web? Well. there are things on the web I am glad I forgot about. And maybe all those spams arriving daily contain what we repress (e.g. the need for Viagra)? Wow, Sigmund Freud would love this....!
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: wetal w Grudzień 08, 2005, 03:03:30 pm
Information in the web is not a case of superconsciousness as it cannot think or to make decisions.          Have you ever seen an intelligent library,neither did I.
  SC it`s more about people who by some means can start think the same way being in different places and times.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Socrates w Grudzień 08, 2005, 06:50:24 pm
I would imagine, Miranda, that you have no need, even a repressed one, for Viagra...
Cheers, Socrates
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Miranda w Grudzień 09, 2005, 10:49:40 am
Socrates, you do your name great honour! Your question made me see the truth: I need not fear that repressed part of webs unconcious.

I know of a case where a book nearly killed one of the dumbest students in a Japanese university library. It hit him in the neck during an earthquake. Maybe there are some intelligent libraries?

Reminds me of the Pirx tale with the time loops. First the relativity theory flies around, then it hits him to make him see...!
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: wetal w Grudzień 10, 2005, 01:24:26 pm
Accidents and mind have no things in common.
If you were ran over by car which handbreak wasn`t on
by absent minded driver,you wouldn`t ever think that that car was intelligent.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Miranda w Grudzień 12, 2005, 03:36:33 pm
Well, maybe I would...But that library idea of course wasn´t serious. Was just trying to get back to Lem.

And I had a goog laugh when I read Lems story about Pirx not realizing about the temporal problems he is in. The theory of relativity book hits his head. I always wondered if he got all those time loops right but am to lazy to write them down and check. He meets himself in the future - his monday, tuesday, wednesday future self and so on...sometimes some of them at once.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: cckeiser w Grudzień 15, 2005, 09:55:04 pm
Text Deleted.  :)



Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: Terminus w Grudzień 16, 2005, 12:36:07 am
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If this be true...





...but it's not.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: innate w Grudzień 16, 2005, 01:04:45 am
Poly-s is metastasizing to colonize other threads now, is it?

[Reality must be conforming to my anxieties again!]
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: wetal w Grudzień 17, 2005, 01:12:07 pm
It was not Pirx who had problems with temporal fields it was Tihiy.
Tytuł: Re: superconciousness
Wiadomość wysłana przez: wetal w Grudzień 19, 2005, 03:07:09 pm
Oops,I personally don`t know how ^ that message got in here.