Autor Wątek: Lem's neologisms and wordplays  (Przeczytany 42394 razy)

ssipila

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Re: Lem's neologisms and wordplays
« Odpowiedź #30 dnia: Czerwiec 29, 2006, 12:42:59 pm »
Cytuj

So is Yamaha a mountain-climber?

 8)


Nope, it's a funny hole in the ground :) Actually "ha" means "leaf". Yamaha is thus "mountain leaf" or "mountain leaves" - heh, that would translate directly as "Vuorilehto" (a Finnish surname). Now this is getting way off-topic...
« Ostatnia zmiana: Czerwiec 29, 2006, 12:43:51 pm wysłana przez ssipila »

maziek

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Re: Lem's neologisms and wordplays
« Odpowiedź #31 dnia: Czerwiec 30, 2006, 09:29:11 am »
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Actually "ha" means "leaf". Yamaha is thus "mountain leaf" or "mountain leaves".........  Now this is getting way off-topic...
Yeah, a little bit off-topic, byt, anyway, funny and interesting. So what is "to" in Japanese? (Yama-to - ww2 Japanese imperial flag  battleship). "To" means "this" in Polish ;D
« Ostatnia zmiana: Czerwiec 30, 2006, 11:45:07 am wysłana przez Terminus »
Nie mam racji a i tak maździory witosieją w terpentynie!
Z Globalnym uważaj Pan, on tylko udaje tępotę! Potem wciąga do jamy i zagryza!© Remuszko.
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ssipila

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Re: Lem's neologisms and wordplays
« Odpowiedź #32 dnia: Czerwiec 30, 2006, 12:43:31 pm »
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So what is "to" in Japanese? (Yama-to - ww2 Japanese imperial flag  battleship). "To" means "this" in Polish ;D


"This hole in the ground" :) - not too far from the truth in the end I guess (see http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=37rvjqeov1pc5?tname=yamato-battleship-explosion-jpg&sbid=lc10a  )

Yamato was a province in old Japan. Its name also came to mean all of old Japan in a reverent way. That's the meaning of the battleship's name.

In general a syllable like "to" or "ha" can have lots of meanings in Japanese - the language has lots of homonyms and you have to figure out the correct meaning from the context (of course reading is "simpler" because each noun has its own word-character). To make things even more difficult for foreigners, these nouns are pronounced differently if they are used as single words instead of combinations.

Meanwhile, I'm eagerly waiting for wordplay & neologism commentaries on "Edukacja Cyfrania" and "Powtórka" :)

maziek

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Re: Lem's neologisms and wordplays
« Odpowiedź #33 dnia: Czerwiec 30, 2006, 08:02:22 pm »
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"This hole in the ground" :) - not too far from the truth in the end I guess
this was the fate of all this class battleships those days - US Arizona, GB Hood, D Bismarck, and Yamato as well...
Cytuj
Yamato was a province in old Japan...
i hoped Japanese is simplier - I thought "to" meant "ship" so "Yama-to" meant "ship as big as a mountain" ;D. Of course, as always, life is more complicated!
Cytuj
Meanwhile, I'm eagerly waiting for wordplay & neologism commentaries on "Edukacja Cyfrania" and "Powtórka" :)
I'm going through!
Nie mam racji a i tak maździory witosieją w terpentynie!
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maziek

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Re: Lem's neologisms and wordplays
« Odpowiedź #34 dnia: Lipiec 05, 2006, 10:48:21 pm »
Well ssipila, here it is, a bunch of wordplys of "edukacja cyfrania"

Cyfranio is composed of cyfra (digit) and Franio (diminutive of Francisk for a small child)

cyberak, cyberyba - both composed od cyber-netic and rak (crayfish) or ryba (fish)

maszynak - its like a zwierzak (pet) - funny about zwierze (animal), but maszyna (machine) is in the place of an animal

maślak (maslak - not sure You are able to see Polish letters) -  made of butter (about biotic organizm),

jełczak (jelczak - not sure You are able to see Polish letters) - nearl the same as maslak - jelczec is a verb that means what happens to butter, when it is too long out of fridge (not melt but rank, rancid, go off)

chandroid - it is a meteorite chondryt (chondrit), but it is chandra (funk, bad mood, CHandra pronounce like a Hammond, not like a CHandler)) in the place of chondrit, or it could be an android (robot) with chandra (funk, etc.) - sad robot

maśliciel (masliciel without Polish letters) -  well really good one, it is myśliciel (mysliciel) - the thinking man, thinker, but it is masło (maslo) - butter in the place of myśl (mysl) - thougt, so perhaps he thinks rather slowly...

When the first re-frozen came to the place where he thought he would be able to play drum, he landed in Baństwo (Banstwo) - state. Because it was all about the music , all non-vibrant sounds in words where changed to vibrant. I'm sorry perhaps I don' use correct words to express what I think, but the sound of letter "B" is vibrant, and "P" nonvibrant - and C-S, G-K, etc are in couples -  the sound is nearly the same but in one case vibrant, and nonvibrant in the second.

So we have Gról (Grol) what is Król (Krol) - the King (Ging - doesn't it sound much more like a music ;) )

Baństwo (Banstwo) is made of Państwo (Panstwo) - the State

and - my favourite - Bolicja - made of Policja - Police. This one is really good, because boli- means ache ;D

and - about musicians - dętyści (detysci, detysta in singular) - made of dentists. Really funny, dęty (dety) means an instrument like trumpet (like in the brass band), detysta is a neologism - means a man who performs on such an instrument, but it is so close to dentysta (dentist) - so it was such a performance, that everybody has a toothache...

Well, I've made the first refrozen story till now...
« Ostatnia zmiana: Lipiec 06, 2006, 09:39:34 am wysłana przez maziek »
Nie mam racji a i tak maździory witosieją w terpentynie!
Z Globalnym uważaj Pan, on tylko udaje tępotę! Potem wciąga do jamy i zagryza!© Remuszko.
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ssipila

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Re: Lem's neologisms and wordplays
« Odpowiedź #35 dnia: Lipiec 06, 2006, 01:19:19 pm »
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Well, I've made the first refrozen story till now...


Thanks again, this is very useful :) - I wonder what Lem's "special message understood only by Polish readers" is. Maybe it's in the story of the second robot.

maziek

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Re: Lem's neologisms and wordplays
« Odpowiedź #36 dnia: Lipiec 06, 2006, 08:44:01 pm »
Is it obvious that all this orchestra is about a comunism? King (Ging) is the general secretary, and gorilla is a secret police? All people (musicians) know they do something completly useless, but it is said they do something very important? And it was easy to come to this state, but it is difficult to go out?
Nie mam racji a i tak maździory witosieją w terpentynie!
Z Globalnym uważaj Pan, on tylko udaje tępotę! Potem wciąga do jamy i zagryza!© Remuszko.
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ssipila

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Re: Lem's neologisms and wordplays
« Odpowiedź #37 dnia: Lipiec 07, 2006, 12:15:15 pm »
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Is it obvious that all this orchestra is about a comunism? King (Ging) is the general secretary, and gorilla is a secret police? All people (musicians) know they do something completly useless, but it is said they do something very important? And it was easy to come to this state, but it is difficult to go out?


This brings to mind the Cyberiad story "Trurl's Machine"... it's difficult to avoid seeing similar metaphors when you read about a huge 8-storey high machine colossus that says "2+2=7" and threatens to squash you if you disagree :)

maziek

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Re: Lem's neologisms and wordplays
« Odpowiedź #38 dnia: Lipiec 08, 2006, 08:29:57 am »
To me that story of the stupid but ambitious machine doesn't have any political meaning. It's a story about an idiot. I'm very interested, how do You in Finland feel all this political spoof "made in Poland" those days (before 1989). My own children born in 90's don't understand, why I LOL at some films made in 70's or 80's...

Anyway, I'm going through the second refrozen robot story. It is much more complicated, because in first refrozen story there was a few neologisms at all, in this one there is a few in every sentence. I'll perhaps read the whole story at first, to get a concept, and than we will go page by page.
Nie mam racji a i tak maździory witosieją w terpentynie!
Z Globalnym uważaj Pan, on tylko udaje tępotę! Potem wciąga do jamy i zagryza!© Remuszko.
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Miesław

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Re: Lem's neologisms and wordplays
« Odpowiedź #39 dnia: Lipiec 18, 2006, 03:39:48 pm »
"The Star Diaries" are full of wordplays  ;D . (I've bought this book about week ago).

In 20th journey we have some wonderful abbreviations and surnames.

1) abbreviations
"TUMAN zawiódł, kontrprzodek pękł"- "blockhead failed, backside cracked"
TUMAN= Telechroniczny Układ Mimośrodkowej Automatyki Nawodzenia. Sorry, but I'm not able to translate what these shortcuts stand for :)

HOPSA (homo perfectum sapiens) - hopsa is something connected with jumping.

2) surnames
Z. Goodlay- We read Goodlay near exactly like gudłaj, and it is ninny; wishy-washy person.
H. Ohmer- he was sent back in time- to ancient Greece...
P. Latton- also sent back in time to ancient Greece
Khand el Abr, Canne de la Breux- sounds like Kandelabr- candelabrum
Guirre Andaule, G.I.R Andoll: żyrandol- chandelier

and many more.


Lem often wrote a name of plant or animal (of course, created by himself) and then gave its latin name: [examples from "Ratujmy Kosmos" (save the Universe)]

mrówka krzesławka dręczypupa, multipodium pseudostellatum Trylopii . In English it could be: chair bottomtorment ant. (Those ants construct from their boduies something like a chair and wait for someone to sit... then they attack.)

Okrucytia cudawka (pixigalaquia bombardans L.). Name comes from oktutny (cruel) and cudowny (wonderful).
« Ostatnia zmiana: Lipiec 18, 2006, 06:11:34 pm wysłana przez Terminus »

ssipila

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Re: Lem's neologisms and wordplays
« Odpowiedź #40 dnia: Sierpień 05, 2006, 03:49:41 pm »
Cytuj
I'm very interested, how do You in Finland feel all this political spoof "made in Poland" those days (before 1989). My own children born in 90's don't understand, why I LOL at some films made in 70's or 80's...


Back from vacation, sorry about the delay.

I was just a boy in the 60's and early 70's, but my memory is that the peoples in the eastern European countries of the Warsaw pact were thought of with sympathy, mixed with pity for their bad luck in western democracy -minded circles (such as my family).

Finnish people were rather divided politically, and in the 70's the left-minded seemed to be a strong majority especially in the official circles. The Soviet Union and the Warsaw pact governments weren't officially criticized for anything, etc. There was some truth in the accusations of "finlandization".

Among the more western-minded Finns it was completely different. The politically right-wing newspapers told news in quite different light than the left-wing ones. In my memory they also had sympathy for the east European peoples (not their governments though).

I remember one political joke related to Poland, but it is completely impossible to translate from Finnish without dissecting the punchline word for word:

Two guys sit in a police holding cell in Poland. The other one says: "I was arrested for drunk and disorderly behavior... what about you?" The other one says: "I have no idea. I was driving along when the engine started coughing, so I stopped and opened the hood to see what was wrong. I soon found the trouble, but just then a police car stopped behind me and the cops came out to ask what my trouble was. I said: "Puolan johdossa on vikaa..."

The punchline means "the ignition coil cable is broken", but also, word for word, "The Polish government is rotten" :)

Puola = Poland; ignition coil
johto = cable, electric lead; leadership
vika = broken; fault, faulty; wrong

Cieciu

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Re: Lem's neologisms and wordplays
« Odpowiedź #41 dnia: Czerwiec 15, 2010, 01:55:02 am »
maślak (maslak - not sure You are able to see Polish letters) -  made of butter (about biotic organizm)
In fact, maślak is also a Polish name for a Suillus mushroom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suillus).

About "kobyszcze".I think "szcze" can means "puppy".Care-free merry puppy.
The "-szczę" part of Kobyszczę strongly suggests something like szczenię (puppy) or cielę (calf) - a young animal, esp. a cute one.

The last funny is ZERWIŚRUBA (what Trurl says about Klapaucjusz) made of two words - ZERWać (to break down) and ŚRUBA (screw).
Zerwiśruba is a direct reference to Zerwikaptur, a Polish coat of arms, made famous by the knight Longinus Podbipięta, a character from Ogniem i mieczem, a very well-known Polish historical novel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longinus_Podbipięta - the link doesn't work properly, so you'll have to copy-paste it manually)
« Ostatnia zmiana: Czerwiec 15, 2010, 01:57:31 am wysłana przez Cieciu »