Autor Wątek: Particpation in Wider Forum  (Przeczytany 17985 razy)

Honest Annihilator

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Particpation in Wider Forum
« dnia: Listopad 05, 2013, 02:36:27 pm »
Just wanted to briefly say “Hello” as a new member.  I love the best of Lem’s writings, which are so powerful that they even manage to come across in English translation. 

Which brings me to my point: I have looked at the “last 100 Posts”, but not one has been in English, and every week although there are new postings they are all in a different language.  I am assuming that the majority are in Polish, though despite the fact that my late father-in-law came from Lvov (and himself spoke several languages fluently) I am unfortunately deficient in this department.  Technology being what it is these days, is it therefore at all possible for this fine-looking site to somehow incorporate some sort of “instantaneous translation” facility that would enable the English speakers to participate more?

In the meantime, I wish all the best to Lem aficionados everywhere who share an such impeccably fine taste in the matter.

Yours honestly...

HAL 9000

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Re: Particpation in Wider Forum
« Odpowiedź #1 dnia: Listopad 06, 2013, 07:51:39 pm »
Hi, nice to see (or read) You  :)
Yes, this forum is mostly Polish. If you want, Google offers page translation: http://itools.com/tool/google-translate-web-page-translator
But there is a problem - automated translators are quite poor. They are good only if you want to translate single word or expression. Polish language is rather difficult to translate in this way and this is a forum - we usually don't use here "dictionary language" and play with words - so automated translator give you only a babble.
By the way, how many language mistakes i did in the text above? ;) Languages aren't my strong point.

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Re: Particpation in Wider Forum
« Odpowiedź #2 dnia: Listopad 08, 2013, 06:11:03 pm »
Thank you, HAL.  You and Golem must meet up sometime.

Yes, automated translators are quite poor at the moment.  Maybe we should get Trurl the constructor on the job??  A shame, as some of these posts look to be very interesting – as far as I can discern.

Roll on the day when all of the “Master’s” works are available in good quality English translation!

By the way, how many language mistakes i did in the text above? ;) Languages aren't my strong point.

Yes, YOUR English was fine right up to the last sentence where you enquired about it!  (Possibly you meant “mistakes did I make in....”?)

Forthrightly & Honestly yours,
“Annie”

HAL 9000

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Re: Particpation in Wider Forum
« Odpowiedź #3 dnia: Listopad 08, 2013, 11:55:14 pm »
Do you read Lem's works in translation by Michael Kandel? I heard that this translations are very good, but of course I can't judge that. Here is a thread about a book about Lem and Kandel: http://forum.lem.pl/index.php?topic=1057.0 Unfortunately, such thread is only in Polish part of the forum.
Do you know only Lem's books, or do you read also other Polish sf-writers? Lem is of course the best one, but we have more writers than one :) Russian writers are also good in sf.

Yes, I forgot about the inverse. Again.
« Ostatnia zmiana: Listopad 09, 2013, 12:54:37 pm wysłana przez HAL 9000 »

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Re: Particpation in Wider Forum
« Odpowiedź #4 dnia: Listopad 19, 2013, 06:48:28 pm »
Hello, HAL, apologies for not responding sooner: yes, Michael Kandel is very good – how he was able to translate something as linguistically contrived (with all of the neo-pharmaceutical names, etc., involved) as The Futurological Congress is a marvel.  If only he could do everything else in Mr Lem's oeuvre!

Shame that the Polish part of the thread is such a widespread element for us mere English speakers, but hardly surprising of course!  (A big “up” to the Poles! I am not familiar with other Polish or Russian-sf writers myself…)  Still, I will look forward to contributing occasionally as & where it seems appropriate…

'Biding my time' (as always)
Yours,
"Annie"

Terminus

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Re: Particpation in Wider Forum
« Odpowiedź #5 dnia: Listopad 22, 2013, 04:50:42 pm »
If you want linguistically  contrived, you should go for Cyberiad or Robot Tales, that's hardcore without limit:)

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Re: Particpation in Wider Forum
« Odpowiedź #6 dnia: Grudzień 02, 2013, 01:09:13 pm »
That's interesting... I haven't come across Robot Tales before, and can't find anything of that title under a Search.  Do you happen to know if that a whole new collection or some alternative name for Cyberiad?

Terminus

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Re: Particpation in Wider Forum
« Odpowiedź #7 dnia: Grudzień 03, 2013, 02:33:53 am »
Hi, well sorry for stirring it up to much 8), there's a small mess when communicating Lem books' titles around... So, I meant Bajki Robotów, which I believe is Fables for Robots precisely. See English wiki about this here. It seems that M. Kandel translated most of that little cycle to what had later appeared as Mortal Engines.
It breaks my heart, that speaking different languages, we seem to be doomed to forever remain divided by the barriers of the untranslatable. I get this on a daily basis speaking to Americans, French, Germans, Arabs... Even the Russians, which should be a bit closer to the Polish being Slavic as us:) But no, some tricks do not transport between slangs...
Sufficient to say, that Lem has created in both Cyberiad and Fables a universe of verbal delight, inducing a pure orgy of double- and triple- meanings... in both names, verbs and situational humour. And above all, he has (ab)used to incredible extent the archaic, almost antique-Polish forms of language, mostly used in XVIII century, and mixed it with techno-cyber terminology.
So I'm nut sure what part of it you've already read, but I wholeheartedly advise to read all you can, these books are to kill for. 
« Ostatnia zmiana: Grudzień 03, 2013, 02:35:55 am wysłana przez Terminus »

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Re: Particpation in Wider Forum
« Odpowiedź #8 dnia: Grudzień 05, 2013, 06:52:37 pm »
Aha!  Well, that seems to clear up that little mystery, thanks very much Terminus.  I have Mortal Engines, although after reading your enclosure I rather incline towards preferring the title “The Cosmic Carnival of Stanislaw Lem”, also mentioned…

It is interesting that, on top of all the other little nuances which we (English readers) may be missing out on from the original Polish, there are also subtle XVIIIth century derivations of the language also.  My, he seems to have been a veritable James Joyce!  Michael Kandel seems to be the best of the translators I have come across, but I don’t know whether even he would have taken this factor you mention into account.

Cytuj
It breaks my heart, that speaking different languages, we seem to be doomed to forever remain divided by the barriers of the untranslatable.

I suppose one day in the future it may get arranged, and we will just have to wait until then (unless we die in the meantime of course).  It would be helpful if a Lem aficionado of decades further ahead would read this and step into a time machine s/he may have just invented or is otherwise available, and do something to assist us Here and Now.  In Stanislaw’s universe this would be somehow possible, like everything else.  (Forget all about time-space continuum paradoxes for the moment - S.L. would have had an answer, I'm sure.)  But, till then...

Ritch

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Re: Particpation in Wider Forum
« Odpowiedź #9 dnia: Maj 21, 2014, 06:08:58 pm »
Hi, everybody

Sorry to pump up this old thread but I like to ask something about it.

HAL 9000 dixit: "Do you know only Lem's books, or do you read also other Polish sf-writers? Lem is of course the best one, but we have more writers than one :) Russian writers are also good in sf."

While Lem is my very favorite author, he is the only Polish writer I am familiar with; I would like to know other Polish or Russian authors you can recommend; if possible with works translated to English.

Thank you beforehand, and sorry for my bad English.

Ritch

Robert Boettcher

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Re: Particpation in Wider Forum
« Odpowiedź #10 dnia: Maj 23, 2014, 01:30:15 am »
Dear all,

please excuse repeated bumping. However I have this to say:
When I joined this forum in 2005 as Sogo (Lem was still alive back then), the forum was not literally teeming with activity (as nowadays 'Social Media' spam sites would. But there was activity by a few dedicated users and the exchange was quite remarkable.

Then Lem died and I had to move my living space, quite drastically chaning my schedule. The last time I logged in with the old profile and looked, there was literally no activity on the English part of the Forum.

But there is still on the Polish Side.
And to he honest, Google Translate from Polish to English is much more comprehensible than from Polish to, for Example, German.

I somewhere gathered that Google translates the page into English first, and then from there into the target language.

Not unlike Captain Prendel in Memoirs found in a Bathtub, running Shakespeares Excerpt from Romeo and Juliet through his DEC Machine twice and finding ever 'deeper' and 'hidden' meaning.

And as for the other authors, I would really like to find Science-Fiction Authors who are having their science right, just like Lem did. It took me considerable effort to read up on Physics of Gravity and Speed of Light to understand where his literary exposition took over from hard scientific facts in his book Fiasco.

If there is that type of book by other Polish Authors (translated or not) it would be interesting. Meanwhile I stick to Lem as his work is still rich enough to find new things.
And Michael Kandel has done great translations, as far as I can judge from having read the German Edition of most of Lem's books.